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BVI June/July '08 Trip report
 
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saildoggie
Link to this postPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:44 pm    Post subject:  BVI June/July '08 Trip report

The Captain: Saildoggie
The Admiral, Happy Hooker: Lynn
Sailpuppy: Nicole (14)
Bert; Haley (14)
Bipto: Bill
Chef Exrdoniaire, Den Mother; Nina
Ariel (16)
Cassie (16)

Unedited version that was removed from TTOL:

June 27: The crew had a nice breakfast at Big Apple Villa and were picked up by The Voyage charters driver around 10:00 AM

It was hard to leave Big Apple, we all LOVED this place and Cheryl from purple pineapple took extra special care of us!!!

I returned the wonderful Pajero to Jerry’s and the dropped me at the Voyage base.

Spent a few minutes on paperwork in the Voyage office while the Girls shopped and snacked, and did what girls do.

Bill and I enjoyed a cold one over at Pussers West End and talked with my ‘ol buddy Capt. Jimmy for a while.

We met up with Bruce, our briefer around Noon and loaded some gear and got into the nitty-gritty, there really is no gritty on Voyage cats, clean as a whistle everywhere you look. We went through every single piece of hardware on the deck, under hatches, anchoring systems, breakers, etc. Bruce demonstrated the dinghy hoist system, talked about sailing quite a bit; they do feel you out for your knowledge at this point.

We then proceed t the nice AC inside and went over every single feature and detail of the yacht, right down to strainer cleaning, power systems, battery charging, genset and inverter operation, you name it.

The Voyage 440 is incredibly well thought out and has tons of really innovative features all over the boat, inside every compartment, hatch and access port were very neatly installed systems, very clean grey gel coat, ergonomics and incredible neatness.

I felt prepared to go on a chase call for a similar boat that may need some help at this point.

The briefing lasted close to 3 hours but I did not feel impatient or upset all, Bruce kept our attention and was absolutely fantastic with what he shared us, even tips on making her go fast and THAT she does well.

Nina stowed the Bobby’s order while we stuck tight with Bruce..

By around 3:30 in the afternoon we were cut loose. Bruce would have been proud of us, we spun to windward and had the main up just outside the channel markers, tough work, load the electric winch and push the button!!!

We motored up the channel just a bit because I am familiar with the wave action and sometimes flukey winds there and then unfurled the headsail on a starboard tack heading.

Dream Cat took off like a rocket, we trimmed up just like Bruce suggested and were pointing at just over 30 degrees and holding 8+ kts. of boat speed, time for a cold beer, this is great!!! We absolutely smoked another Voyage cat going to weather; they eventually turned downwind and were gone.

We made Great Harbor, Peter Island in short order, maybe an hour and a half.

Wow, the moorings looked to be completely full, then a Moorings power cat dropped their ball right inside, a perfect spot, we were on it like flies on, well, you know.

Happy Hooker picked up the pennant like she does it every day.

The whole crew was off the back for our first swim of the charter.

We made reservations at Oceans 7 and had a few boat drinks.

Service was pretty good at Oceans 7 until the food started arriving, everyone was served except The Admiral, we waited, waited, dive in. I shared a steak with Haley; it was absolutely awful, all fat and grizzle and tasted nasty. The potatoes were good and everyone else seemed pleased wit their meals, that except The Admiral, hers still did not arrive 20 minutes after we were served. Maybe an off night?

We headed out to our glow stick and called it a night, all slept very well with a very nice, cool breeze.


June 28 Day 2 aboard: We had some breakfast and then dropped the ball after watching a ship carrying motor yachts deposited a couple in the water.

We had a nice, relaxing sail downwind, I traveled the main out and kept it sheeted tight enough so the battens were not crushing into the stay and unrolled the headsail on the other side. We sailed DDW wing and wing while teaching the crew the finer points of steering this point of sail at the helm.

We made very good time and rounded the pass at Little Thatch in less than an hour, average speed 7.8 kts. which is great for DDW.

We could have flown the spinnaker but my ribs were asking for light duty.

We anchored very close in right in front of Soggy Dollar Bar at White Bay; the central channel markers were gone so we entered White Bay through the southern most set down by Ivan’s. We bid hello to BVI Dreamin and the crew aboard Hotel California on the way in..

It did not take long for hoards of day boats including Karalu to crowd in around us, some of the power boats anchoring too close, I asked a couple to back off.

The crew looked at me in disbelief that I was not launching the dink and we were swimming in, you want ice cream girls, swim for it!!

We had a wonderful reception at Soggy Dollar, net Jim (BVI Dreamin’) and crew and got a big smile from Mick and a birthday call from TriciaH and Tommy. We also had the Company of a couple and their grandson, TTOL’ers that were on a mono but for the life of me, shoulda wrote their name down as well as a couple that were celebrating their first tear of cruising!

Roger invited me up to the office for a chat and they bought me a nice new Soggy Dollar hat as well as a round of Painkillers for the entire crew!! There were many additional Painkillers on the board, thank you everyone, my ribs suddenly felt pretty darn good!!

We carefully pulled anchor mid afternoon, a large power day boat had to use his throttles a bit to move over and allow us to get the hook up. Short motor over to Great Harbor for the evening festivities we anchored up tight in the SE area in front of Foxys, right by Paulfox’s boat, took 3 tries but got hooked up good. Jeannius settled in just in front of us.

Some drunk dipsticks in a CatCo Lagoon 500 came screaming through the anchorage at full throttle and unfortunately anchored right by us! They darn near crashed into their buddies cat, a crewed one that will remain anon for now.

I have the boat name and more details, but that is for a later date.

Radioed in reservations and had Paulfox visit us on anchor for a bit. We later went ashore and met Susan with the JVDPS, gave her the check for the proceeds of the Ebay items I sold for the cause and bought some raffle tickets. Foxy was hanging out greeting everyone, really nice.

We checked out the sloop project and had a few cold ones with the TTOL group.

Somehow our group got scattered all over Foxy’s and there was a mix up in reservations with another boat (s), unfortunately it was the drunk dipsticks.

Drunk dipsticks showed at Foxy’s claiming we stole their dinner reservations, they were ready to fight about it!! The called out “crew of dream Cat come out we want to buy you a drink” old trick, I came out alone and explained there must have been a mistake and half our group already had food on their plates, maybe they otta try Corsairs.

This did not go over well, they were very ripped, one of them even wearing a lifejacket….to dinner????

Daughter Nicole finally got in their faces and screamed at them to go away!!

We really could not hear the raffle going on, too far away, but our teen girls each won a bottle of Foxy’s Firewater rum signed by Foxy himself.

The BBQ was actually quite good, the fish was excellent.

We stayed and partied with the TTOL group for a while then a bunch of ‘em sang me “Happy Birthday” on the dock, very nice indeed!!

We had a nice breeze and slept well except for a visit by the drunk dipsticks, idiots, at zero dark thirty pounding on the hull and screaming “wake up Dream Cat”, woke the whole crew up, bad form for sure, but again, gonna leave that situation alone for now.


June 29, day 3 aboard: Blowing pretty hard and actually a great day for a well seasoned crew, but I did not have one of those, rather a great buddy that does extremely well and asks the right questions and 4 teenage girls, 2 of them not real comfy with the rough stuff.

Took the dink around and talked to the TTOL’ers CGB was gonna work for everyone.

BVI Dreamin’s crew made me up the meanest bloody mary I have ever had, thank You!!!

Walt (Twanger0 gave me a cool “Beatings will continue until the moral improves” flag which I immediately installed on the port stay with the others.

We simply motored to CGB and anchored in close by the swim buoys.

We eventually moved after spinning around more than I like and worried about light breeze and back winding at night.

We took a mooring and were joined by Jeannius, Hotel California (BVI Dreamin) and Twanger and crew aboard Moon Shadow.

Inflated the kayaks and the girls paddled around, great kayaks, super easy to set up!!!

Set up camp in front of Rhymers and started a tab, visited with the staff a bit, enjoyed all of the TTOL Company, Twanger’s floaty trick with the beer atop his storage facility was a riot!!

Drunk dipsticks again flew through the anchorage at full throttle, moored right next to us and continued to terrorize and harass the entire crew all day. Dipsticks and associates from the other crewed boats would even harrrass our women and children aboard alone, all about where’s your captain, got booze, we are coming aboard and taking them, etc. I may mention the ocal captain’s name, charterers name and boat names and actual names at a later time.

We planned on BBQ’ing burgers aboard but the drunk dipsticks continued taunting and yelling over to the boat. I went over alone to ask them to knock it off and get over it, we are on vacation and do not want to be bothered.

A serious incident then occurred, the police were called but did not show up, I was very hesitant to leave the crew aboard, got he flare gun, emergency tiller, boat hook and winch handles all in a location where I could get at them easily, more details at a later date.


June 30: Breakfast aboard, a quick trip into Bobby’s for more TP, we have 4 teen girls aboard, remember??

Raise the main on the mooring, tough work, load the winch and push the button, then a brisk sail up to Monkey Point!!

We rounded Du Bois Point under full sail and went to weather like banshees, we sailed out into 5’+ seas with winds around 24 kts. We had full sails and close hauled, feathering up on gusts and pointing just over 30 degrees, did I mention the Voyage 440 plus points like a keelboat???

The kids were on the bow getting very wet and screaming like young girls do, GeorgeC1 called my cell phone, had to explain I kinda had my hands full right at the moment.

Nice sail to Monkey point!

We first anchored in some sand but were not real pleased with the proximity to other boats, a mooring opened up and we grabbed it immediately. The snorkeling was decent, pretty clear and lots of fun. We had some chili dogs aboard and visited with Walt (Twanger) for a bit and then Capt. Jerk and dipstick drunks showed up, we dropped the mooring and headed up to Leverick for the evening.

First time through the Anguilla Cut, piece of cake, never saw less than 6’ on the depth sounder and it was calibrated to read surface at the Voyage base before we started..

Nick himself answered our radio call and immediately assigned me the dinghy dock, told me it is 2’ deep all over, no problem Mon!!

We were then instructed to take slip 14, put fenders on port back in.

Smiling David was on the dock as we backed in, very smoothly I may add, looked like we actually knew what we were doing. No scratches george!

Got all secured and were then greeted by Nick himself, what a warm welcome indeed!!!!

This place is special because of the people, my crew was blown away with the hospitality, Nick made everyone feel very welcome and really seems to enjoy making people smile, it is a special trait both him and Monica have!!

The girls all got some laundry done and enjoyed shore showers at Leverick, they even made appointments for spa treatments for the next morning!!

Twanger took the slip right in front of us, we loaned him our power cords so he could have enough length to get plugged in, we had plenty of battery capacity and did not need to plug in.

We talked with Capt. Monk, Capt. Kris and some of the SeatrekBVI crew and were invited to join their party, lots of fun for sure!!

We dined on the incredible Kobe Beef burgers and the kids all enjoyed pizza at The Cove downstairs, wonderful dinner, just perfect!!!


July 1: Time for the Dinghy Poker run!!!!!

Started the morning a bloody mary from the Jumbies bar, nick had them open at 9:00 AM for this event. I assisted Nick a bit; he was building a plank to walk non-pirate gear dressed folks over the pool!!!

I donned my pirate gear and switched over to Red Stripes as everyone was registering, quite a gang was forming already!! I found a section of PVC pipe and rigged up a pirate flag on Dream Cat’s dink and distributed the water cannons that Scott from island Surf and sail had given me as well as the ones I brought from home.

The horn was honked and everyone loaded up into the dinghies!!

We assembled in front of the fuel dock, getting everyone staged up for the start and we were off!!!

The first few salvos from our water cannon were not very well received, we got the hairy eyeball the stink eye and utter disgust from some, then they all got in the spirit and splashed with whatever they had!!!

I am sure the guys from VISAR that motored along side were cringing with the weaving, bobbing, water attacks and well, a bit of ramming that was taking place, boating safety 101 was put aside for the moment but everyone knew how to be cool and keep it safe as possible.

First stop Sandbox, get another card and continue the internal lubrication that is a required part of this event. We continued to Fat Virgin, Bitter End and finally Saba Rock to collect cards.

We managed to ambush a few fully loaded dinks by furling he pirate flag and hiding out, my crew, Bill was laughing like a school girl while manning the water cannon!!!

We all finally made it back to Leverick for a wonderful evening with live band and fantastic buffet!!!! The awards were great fun, forget the winners but we won a best dressed couple award and a big magnum of bubbly we ended up re-gifting to our hosts!!!

What a great event, Nick and Monica went way out of their way to be sure everyone had a great time, stuff like this is NEVER forgotten!!!!

The Staff, the people, drinks, the band and especially the buffet were all awesome!

Another wonderful and restful evening at the Leverick Bay Slip and off to Anegada in the morning!!!

Hung out a bit with the crew of Claire, a Festiva boat with several couples aboard that also had a blast on the poker run. We introduced them to TTOL. Their Irish Captain is the one described in the Anegada race video thread here:


July 2: Anegada baby!!! We said our good byes to Nick and Monica as well as Tito and David on the dock, grabbed a couple of bags of ice and talked with our Irish Captain about the race to Anegada. They still had the pirate flag they stole from our dinghy attached to their boat, I left it as a curse and it truly was!!!

Link to Anegada race and video here:

http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=868103&an=0&page=1#Post868103

We anchored close in by Neptune’s Treasure and radioed in to Randy for a ride for 14 to cow Wreck and Flash of Beauty. We all made our dinner reservations and selections with randy before heading out.

Mal, Heather, Joe and Amymurphy joined us on the ride, dropped them at Cow Wreck and we continued to Flash of Beauty. The place was deserted, we snorkeled a bit, it was OK, a bit stirred up. We met Cappy, a local musician, he was keeping an eye on the place and just let us pour our own drinks, he tallied up our bill on a piece of cardboard and showed us his incredible collection of hermit crabs just outside the kitchen, the girls got a big kick out of this!!!

Bill ran the girls out to the boat and then enjoyed a few drinks at the bar with Randy and I and another couple. I had killed my lighter and asked Randy if he had any matches, he gave me one of those huge Bic firestick lighters, big in the pocket, but works great on the boat!!

About to head to the boat, Randy called me back, it was Nick from Leverick on the radio!!! Nick still had the special Magnum bottle of Champagne from Sir Dick’s special stock we won for best dressed couple, I had not claimed it, he asked me to stop by in the morning to get it.

I thought for about 2 seconds and suggested him and Monica enjoy it as a thank you for being such wonderful hosts, he gladly accepted, very cool!!

Dinner was wonderful, several of us had the fresh blackfin tuna that was caught that morning, really great!!

Twanger’s crew was well into dinner when we arrived and the Jeannius crew had a table right across from us outside, wonderful evening, kicked back, quiet group!!

Wonderful night aboard Dream Cat, the girls qued up a DVD and had a blast.


July 3:

Made coffee and then got the kite up behind the boat, sent the camera up and got some cool shots, some are in the photo link.

Breakfast aboard, the girls got pancakes then Nina experienced some sticking issues with the pan, the boys got Chili cheese pancakes, quite yummy, thanks Nina!

Took the dink in and talked to Randy, set up a ride to Cow Wreck.

Met up with Belle and Alex, started with a couple of beers and got the kite launched and then sent the camera rig up for some fun photos.

We headed back to Dream Cat and Nina made up some yummy sammies while readied the boat for sailing. We left the channel around 1:00 on a screaming reach to Trellis Bay.

Great sail with the knot meter staying right about 10 kts. all the way.

Caught a barracuda just before dropping the sails and heading into Trellis.

The moorings were packed full so went inshore in front of ‘De Loose Mongoose and dropped a hook. The derelict boats don’t leave much room, after snorkeling the set and seeing the depth, we spied a mooring about to open up and headed for it!!

Visited with Chris and Wife, Owners of Mongoose when they collected our mooring fee, great to see them again. Popped into the market for a few supplies for dinner and some ice, the girls went straight to Cyber Café for ice cream.

Nice quiet evening, the Irish Captain from Claire stopped by on the dink, actually a nice guy, and tried to get us to join them at Last Resort, we had other plans, movie night aboard again. A great sleep with wonderful breeze followed.


July 4: Another great breakfast, thanks Nina, this Lady can cook, make yummy stuff out of whatever is around, English muffins with egg, cheese, chili and sausage patties, can we say the ultimate hangover breakfast??

Every time I turned around Nina was whipping up something, what a treat to have a cooking angel aboard!!

We raised the main the dropped the mooring and headed for The Bight, Norman Island for our final night aboard.

After rounding The Bluff of Beef Island we set a course and hoisted the spinnaker in its sock. I had Bill head down a bit and then prepare to sheet her in as I raised the sock.

Now big credit to Bill for really helping me out the whole week with me nursing the ribs and all, he was a great first mate, he got an over ride on the winch. We managed to get the chute flying then did a downwind dip to collapse the chute and fix the over ride, dummy me did not thread the sheet thru the clutch before the winch.

We got her all trimmed up nice and zoomed along pretty nicely for a while. We had a twist at the tack, I already mentioned to George that a swivel shackle addition would be great.

We dipped again and I attempted to do a quick fix with the chute collapsed but she filed and ripped the tack outa my hands. Time to pull the sock down and call it a day on the chute!!!

Nice rest of sail, Nicole performed a couple of headsail gybes as we reached and switched to wing on wing, cold beers all around!!!

We saw the SeatrekBVI boats again as we entered The Bight and then took a mooring a few out from Pirates. Lunch aboard then the girls kayaked and we headed ashore for some R&R at Pirates. Girls shopped, boys drank, all waded and enjoyed the afternoon with a small wing of the PR Navy..

We saw Aristocat but were not sure who was aboard, we later met Tony and Melody and enjoyed a cold one with them.

Back to the boat for wonderful beans that Nina had doctored up in the morning and hot dogs for our traditional 4th. of July dinner.

Bill and I made a quick run over to Willy T, it was really dead, but uh oh, drunk dipsticks were back, all 3 cats were anchored and rafted deep in the anchorage behind WillyT.

Back to the boat for a great dinner and another movie night!!!

Slept like a rock, nice breeze and very quiet!!


July 5: Up early and get all my flags down, tidy up the boat for return to base.

Yummy breakfast aboard again and raise the main on the mooring about 7:30 AM, we sailed by Jeannius but there was not a stir aboard, nor on 2 of the remaining drunk dipstick boats, I gave those people a very special salute on the way by.

The other dipstick crewed charter cat was motoring toward Sopers, we passed them under sail and had a great last sail into Soper’s Hole.

We furled the headsail and dropped the main right at the channel markers and called Kimo from Voyage on the radio. We were instructed to pick up a mooring and get fenders and dock lines on the starboard side. Within a few minutes Kimo dinked out to Dream Cat and took her in to the fuel dock.

We did a really quick de-brief as he had an outgoing de-brief to perform.

Kimo fueled the boat, says we took on 19 gallons, not bad for 8 days, but I really think it was less, we were only down maybe 3” in the big tank and it tapers at the top.

We began unloading our mountain of luggage, remember 4 teenage girls and my toy bag?? The boat looked great, we zero problems and loved everything about Dream Cat.

I collected the boat bag and chart and settled up in the Voyage Office, quite painless and efficient actually.

We got loaded up by the Voyage driver for the short trip to the ferry terminal, off to St. John for 3 days of hanging at the Westin pool!!!

Smith’s ferry grabbed our luggage as it came off the truck , we purchased our tickets, paid the departure tax and headed to jolly Roger for a few cold ones and to watch the Firecracker 500 yacht race, really cool!!!

Westin St. John report to follow on the USVI section, we basically really enjoyed ourselves, just chilled at the pool for 3 days!!!

Some photos on this link, more to come!!!
http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/saildoggie/BVI08/BVI081/


________________________________________
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HillsideView
Link to this postPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:59 pm    

"All the news that's fit to print". Glad you posted it.
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saildoggie
Link to this postPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:57 pm    

I otta post the statement of the assault also, maybe remove the names!!! Evil or Very Mad
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walker
Link to this postPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:21 pm    

saildoggie wrote:
I otta post the statement of the assault also, maybe remove the names!!! Evil or Very Mad

No problem posting that here, Mark. This really is an open forum!
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HillsideView
Link to this postPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:11 pm    

Hey Saildoggie....check this out...you type in SHEEPLE and [censored] doesn't appear! Gotta like that!
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saildoggie
Link to this postPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:46 pm    

By Name removed, Captain and head charterer of name removed a Voyage 440 from Voyage Charters.

I attest and swear the events stated below are the facts as they occurred.

July 12, 2008

Our family has been enjoying sailing vacations in the BVI’s once to twice a year for the past 8 years.
We have chartered 12 times in lengths 7-16 days per charter.
We have chartered with The Moorings 6 times and also with Horizon, Bare Cat, TMM and most recently Voyage Charters.

We are active Members on an internet travel forum at www.traveltalkonline.com
We had set up a flotilla of 6 boats from various charter companies and planned our first stop at Foxy’s JVD for a raffle for the JVPS and dinner on June 28 which also happened to be my 50th. Birthday.

We anchored in Great Harbor, JVD on the afternoon of June 28 and were enjoying some time on the boat and swimming behind the boat prior to cleaning up and heading into Foxy’s for the evening. We noticed a fairly loud, rowdy crowd on a crewed catamaran name removed.
I had just exited the water onto the back of the boat when I saw a Lagoon 500 weaving through the anchored boats at a very high rate of speed, full throttle I am guessing.
The entire crew was on deck and very rowdy, very intoxicated, The Captain was a black man, appeared to be a local hired skipper.
I called the crew aboard from swimming as they were operating the vessel in an extremely dangerous manner.
The Lagoon 500, we could now see was named Name removed, she sped past us very closely and came within inches of colliding with name removed sterns. There was incredible screaming and taunting, both boats loaded with extremely intoxicated people including the Captains and even the 12-14 years children that were aboard appeared to be intoxicated.

Our first inclination was to move, but it took 3 tries to get a good set so we stayed and hoped for the best.

We radioed Foxy’s with a headcount of about 28 as our friends were also anchored aboard names removed and a smaller monohull, don’t remember the name. The Manager of Foxy’s, Name removed , came out to our boat and talked to us, the dinner at Foxy’s had been planed for months. Apparently Foxy’s made an error and omitted their reservation.




I received and distributed the dinner tickets to our group and we proceeded to the BBQ line. While in line, a group of 5-6 very intoxicated male adults called out “Crew of Dream Cat come out, we are buying you a round of drinks” This was a ploy to get us all identified and rough us up at least.

I came out of line alone and they were shouting we stole their diner reservations and wanted to fight about it.. I explained to them that we are 2 families with 4 teenage girls and do not want any trouble, we are on vacation and it is my 50th. Birthday.

My little blonde dynamo then got right in their faces and dished out an incredible verbal salvo at the drunk idiots, I am glad she did not kick any of them in the nuts or tear their ears off!!

A very intoxicated black man, now learned by the name of name removed was wearing a lifejacket and was very intoxicated, he confronted and blurted out many threats, he was very menacing looking, very crazy, my wife, daughter and friends were extremely frightened by this.

I suggested they go to Corsairs for pizza and leave us alone, they finally left and we had dinner,

We were awoken back on Dream Cat by several dinghies full of again, very intoxicated people, they were pounding on the hull and screaming “wake up Dream Cat” we want to talk to you” this was at least 3:00 AM, the woke the entire crew and were threatening us with all kinds of things.

I finally yelled at them to just leave us alone, again, the entire crew aboard Dream Cat was very scared and uncomfortable. The wives and teens had the worst of it and don’t think anyone made it back to sleep.

It was quite windy n the morning so we decided on a lay day from sailing and motored over to Can Garden Bay for a day on the beach and to get away from these very menacing very threatening people.

Later in the afternoon we were enjoying the beach when I saw SV Name removed again come screaming through the anchorage at a very high rate of speed and coming very close to other boats. Again, there were people in the water as well kayaks and dinghies all over the lace. They took a mooring directly to the port of our Dream Cat. We had Names removed very nearby, all friends from TTOL..

First the crew from Name removed came up on the beach looking for our skipper (Me) and then later, name removed went by our boat with his intoxicated jester and harassed our crew, they were yelling things lie free “booze on Dream Cat, you got a problem with that” there were only women and teenage girls aboard and they were afraid the boat was a bout to be boarded. Our girls yelled at them to go away or they will call the Police, they continued to threaten them..
The rest of our group returned to Dream Cat and had planned to BBQ burgers aboard for dinner. They were yelling from their boat “we want the captain of Dream Cat”.

I had finally had enough, it was to late in the day to move, I got in the dinghy by myself and went over to talk to them, hopefully get them to stop their insane behavior.
I pulled up n the starboard rear quarter of name removed and tied the painter to a stanchion, basically asked them to please stop being a problem to us.

Captain Name removed grabbed me by the arm and had assistance from the crew in lifting me from the dinghy and began punching me in the face, most of the blows came from name removed himself, but I believe other came from Members of the crew as they were holding me up by my arms.

I finally struggled free and free fell back into the dinghy and rushed for the painter line to get it loose so I could escape, the crew was trying to prevent my escape and wanted more blood. My new shirt my Wife gave me for my 50th. Birthday was all torn up, my arm badly bruised and left eye hurting very badly from the blows.
I think this really irritated my broken ribs and also broke an additional one in the back.
I managed to get free and sped off in the dinghy back to Dream Cat. Upon boarding I instructed m Wife to cal the Police immediately on my cell phone.

We had many witnesses aboard names removed of the whole incident.

I did not want to leave the boat in fear they would damage it, I know the owner personally and felt safer staying put. I also did want to go ashore in fear my family would not be safe.

The Police never arrived, apparently they visited the Elm Bar and did not ask anyone for a dinghy ride to the boat. It sounds as if names removed, they crew may have even been at The Elm Bar when the Police arrived.

The crew of name removed told me of this the next day.

Mr. Name removed and the Name removed family had put our entire crew in terror over the course of 2 days and also committed criminal assault on myself personally.

I suggest that name removed never be allowed to be in command of a vessel in the future and also the name removed and crew not be allowed back in the territory.

The Captains and crew of names removed should be under scrutiny as accessories to everything that transpired and this should be noted accordingly.
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:59 pm    Post subject:  Thanks

Mark,

Thanks for the story. It should be heard. Walker, thank you as well.

IJ
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saildoggie
Link to this postPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:19 pm    

Jim, You are good Man, open you WIFI for me, visit with us and let me enjoy your wonderful doggies for a bit, everything about being next door to you at the villa was wonderful!
The real deal is what it is, I did not provoke any of it, we were on vacation wanting fun and relaxation.
The people involved knew our schedule from TTOL and tried to ruin our fun, they did not succeed, we had fun despite their childish, bullying, cowardly behaviour.
They terrorized our women and teen girls when they knew we were not aboard, then caused major mayhem and attacked the guy that simply came over in th dinghy and asked them to stop it.

Let it be understood, there were 28 of them on 3 crewed catamarns and they were all out o truy and make our trip miserable.

Not a cool thing at all.
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walker
Link to this postPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:04 pm    

You dealt with the situation very admirably, Mark. My hat is off to you for remaining as composed as you did. thumbsup

Good on yer, mate - I'm not sure that I could have kept my cool.
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Dugg
Link to this postPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:47 pm    

Hi
Thanks for the report. This gives us all the more reason for (largely) abandoning TTOL except for making very narrowly focused replies, after having been mildly censored on a number of topics. In a recent case, I decided to post a second half of our trip report for this spring on www.virgin-islands-on-line.com, largely because of a lack of interest in the first part involving a land-based trip. (The major offense that got mildly censored had to do with the dumping of MSDs in Cane Garden Bay and elsewhere, apparently an off-limits topic on TTOL.)
Too bad that you couldn’t indicate the names of the “names deleted” even on Walker’s board. Sure would like to know who the perps were.
Maybe someday I’ll get to meet the TTOL’ers that you mentioned (we haven’t seen one yet in ten years worth of trips on th ‘ilons’). It’s very clear that you had a great time despite the hostilities. Keep up the good work! (We can’t afford a catamaran with just two people though, so that’s out of our league! If anything, a charter on a monohull from the USVI seems a logical choice.)
Peace
Dugg and Chris
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saildoggie
Link to this postPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:06 am    

Walker, I was very tempted to pick up the oar that was torn from its brackets by my back when I fell back ito the dinghy and take some nasty swipes with it.
As mentioned, I had pulled up on side quarter of the Lagoon 50 and the freeboard is quite high on that boat, the drunk idiots feet were at about my chest level. They were trying to pull the dinghy painter in to dish out more abuse, they were all participating.
There were 2 TTOL'ers in the group, one on the Lagoon, I have all of the names but cannot put them up here as yet.

Bummer is my daughter and the other teens were exposed to this violence, the teens on the offending boat were actually participating in the assault!

Sick people I tell you, SICK!!

Dugg, hope to meet you on one of these trips!
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HillsideView
Link to this postPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:13 am    

Seems the charter companies are down to just requiring a credit card...no common decency,common sense,or class required anymore.
What is amazing is the behavior of a professional captain on the "main boat". Just his behavior alone (not including his BA content) should call for some serious reprimands if not banning him as a captain for hire.
The police of course should also hold their heads in shame, failing to contact the complaintant really makes you wonder. I know they don't like to scuff their shiny shoes on the beach, and I guess the possibility of getting them WET really made them keep it to a cursory investigation.
As Dugg mentioned, the moderators on TTOL are a bit overboard. If they are going to close a thread, at least have the decency to identify yourself,which some do, but others don't.
Banning this trip report is a real disservice to the readers, as it is a first hand account of a trip experience in the BVI...isn't that what they are all about?? The boards on TTOL have been considerably less active, a definite chilling effect. So, who wants to talk about Sheeple (instead of [censored]?
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:15 am    

Just joined this forum. Followed link from TTOL regarding saildoggie's trip report. What I found immediately interesting is the number of people who have either moved away from or limited their activity due to the censorship (masqueraded as moderation by the Moderators) of the TTOL forum. I was very disappointed that they had censored saildoggie's trip so much. I think there are alot of TTOL people out there who would not only want to know what happened on that trip but also that some of the people on that forum where partially responsible.

One day I hope the situation is such that identities of the boats and people can be revealed.
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Auspicious
Link to this postPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:45 pm    

I'm sorry someone - anyone - had such an unpleasant time on vacation. Very sad. I'm disheartened that TTOL moderators decided a report of this experience was not appropriate to that board -- I have long felt TTOL was a great source of information, but without the balance of good and bad an information source is not credible. There is a big difference between moderation and censorship. I would like to hear the "rest of the story" from TTOL. That probably won't happen.
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:22 pm    

Wow ... Saildoggie that really sucks. I am so sorry to hear that happened to you. What a horrible experience for you and your family. You are a real trooper. Geez! It definitley makes you think (with all these wacko's out there) if posting trip dates, where your staying or what boat your sailing is not such a good idea. Who would have ever imagined something like this could or would have happened in the BVI's on vacation. Thank God your ok!

Happy Birthday! Loved your Trip Pics ... Thx for sharin.
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saildoggie
Link to this postPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:31 pm    

Thanks for the support everyone!
Just an update, i recieved an email from Capt. Jerk's Employer, they have made some decisions and will be in contact with me from their main office shortly, I hope as soon as tomorrow.

Sounds as if they may take some actin against Capt. Jerk, I suggested he never cpatain a boat again and should be blackballed from all charter companies, he is dangerous to his guests and everyone around him!!

Anger management classes and AA meetings should be the minimum required for him, all documented and at least 6 months of intense attendance.,he may have avoided jail on this one, possibly the Police knew him and that is why they did not respond.

I really do not want to be looking over my shoulder on my next visit, this guy is dangerous!

Got a message also from Puau, the Manager at Foxy's, Paul is a good guy, it reads as follows;

From: paulfox

Wow!!
I talked to the French kid that night and he seemed cool, and even told me that the strangest part was not only were there two groups of 28-30, but they had a 50th birthday on their boat (Dream Catcher) as well. He didn't try to weasel any drinks, or any thing like that, in fact he and the other fellow with him seemed very cool about the whole situation, and were quite satisfied with their experience at Corsair's.

I don't know who the skipper who assaulted you was, but I assume he was on Sea Dream, because I recieved this in an email from a friend of mine at cat Charters:

"On a completely different subject, I believe some of our bareboat guests could have been involved in an altercation at Foxy's a few days ago. We're receiving reports of an argument and possible assault, due to a mix up of boat names for dinner reservations at Foxy's.

I believe our vessel was Sea Dream and the other side of the argument was part of the current TTOL Flotilla group? Can you confirm any of this?

Sea Dream is on Bareboat charter as normal and the local skipper on there was not hired by Catamaran Charters, but directly from the guest who used an outside broker for the booking and therefore didn't directly book with us. Obviously this skipper and the group are responsible for their own actions and Catamaran Charters can be held in no way responsible for them, but we obviously need to clear this up. If they are being a danger to the vessel and themselves then we can recall them and stick them on the dock. If they are being overly rowdy and abnoxious this is a Police matter and those involved in the alleged assault need to press charges against them."

I replied saying:

The incident here involved JP(?, French Skipper) on Dream Catcher, in a flotilla with two other boats, and the TTOL flotilla boat Dream Cat, who both made a reservation for “28 possibly 1 or 2 more”

I was given the Dream Catcher reservation by one of my kitchen staff. I took the Dream Cat reservation over the radio and then went to their boat and asked if someone had already reserved. He said it was likely, because there were 3 boats involved.

I assumed it was only one party of 28, and since there are so many “Dream Catchers” floating around, the reservation was just taken wrong.

Dream cat came in and had the barbecue, Dream Catcher showed up later, and I simply did not have enough Barbecue to serve them.

While it was my mistake, there was a minor verbal altercation between one of their guests and the captian from the TTOL flotilla boat, there may have been a threat or two, but no violence that I saw or was reported to me.

I got them reservations elsewhere, and spoke with two of their Skippers later on that night, and there seemed to be no problem."

Then a few days ago, I ran into Rex, who, (taking a brief time out from talking about Rex, heh heh) told me the basics of the story.

I meant to get up with you sooner, and would have if I had realized the extent and gravity of the situation.

I truely appoligize that my mistake was the cataylist that these [censored] needed to show their true colors. I would like to get the name of the skipper, because that kind of conduct is unacceptable and unexcuseable. Especially the terrorizing of your wife and children.

I will get the name out there. I have a friend or two in the charter industry.

Ok, on a lighter note, I am re-editing because I wrote A$$holes, and as you can see it was censored.

So I went back and wrote "even my f****** c***s****** s*** a** PM's get censored on this site.

When I went to submit it, the whole PM came up blank. I had to back page the site and change it. What a goof!!

Hope to see ya during the Catfight.

Paul
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:06 pm    

It's a shame this happened to you. I hadn't really got the gist of what happened until I read the last few postings. Now I see what happened, an odd coincidence you did not contribute to.

It's weird that someone would decide to make one minor incident with a reservation the focus of their whole vacation. I don't mean you of course, I mean them. I can't see a rational person spending thousands of dollars on a trip and then not being able to get past something like this, one change of venue for dinner. I guess you have to call ti "vacation rage".

It's also unfortunate that that other forum does not really permit bad news. People need to know the good and bad they may face. The BVI is a great place but clearly some things happen that aren't great sometimes.

On my own recent vacation, my underage daughter was the target of some really obscene gestures (when I was not nearby) by a (I am fairly certain) crewman on the Anegada ferry "Sterling", which I unfortunately did not learn until we got back to our villa so had no chance to do anything about. I thought I should tell someone that this sort of thing can happen (not to mention the fact that another crewman ran a 6 pack of Heineken up to the pilot house) but whom? One might say something like that on a travel forum for the next guy to consider, but not on TTOL I'm sure.

I understand they don't want neverending flame wars and negativity over there, and that's a real risk in these forums. But there's a difference between merely avoiding that and being the mayor in "Jaws".
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:00 pm    

Hey Mark,

WOW really sorry to hear about such an unpleasant experience while you were sailing in Paradise!

And thanks to Walker for posting details that were banned elsewhere.

We've been thru a similar experience down-island, and I know what you were going thru...

If the perps were from USA I'm amazed that you are not pursuing this further...


best,

Chuck
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HillsideView
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:07 am    

What I found really odd on TTOL, I did a search of the word "assault" in the SXM Forums and there were several postings relating personal experiences of people being assaulted and robbed and these threads were allowed to run the full 50! Seems to be a different standard for BVI Forum. I really appreciate Walker having a true "open forum".
Portraying the BVI's as all sunshine and smiles is a real disservice to the uninitated. Things can and do happen here, and if you are aware of who/what/when/where, you can plan accordingly.
Thanks Walker.
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walker
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:23 am    

You know, maybe it is just me, but that artificial 50 count limit on postings seems absurd. What the hell is the point of that? It sure helps me keep a thread in context if I can browse back and forth through it.

And the moderators seem to be spring-loaded to see who can be first to put the 50-post lid on a thread. Geez, like they have absolutely nothing better to do. Do they get to notch their mice or something when they lock a thread?

I am a member of quite a few forums, and TTOL is the only one with a limit on posts per thread. One of the forums that I am a member of very often has threads that run into hundreds of posts. WTF with TTOL?

It really seems bizarre - silly moderation and censorship, limits on thread postings, but they allow anonymous posting. Can anyone tell me why allowing anon postings is a good thing?

I do enjoy TTOL but am often annoyed by it as well. The annoyance is probably mutual. I don't post very often there any more. When I do, it is usually to give info that I figure no one else has or to make a correction to bad info. Regardless of the forum, I don't want people to believe what they read just because they see it posted - many times posted by an anonymous poster...
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HillsideView
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:35 am    

Have to agree with anon posting. Usually the anon poster is either hyping something or taking a pot shot at a business or person. Sometimes there are legit questions asked by anon, as I once was, but when I decided to post info and opinions, I 'came out of the closet" and registered. Probably should have in the first place!
Figure if something is worth saying, you may as well put your "mark' on it, or don't bother saying it.
Also suspect PM's aren't really "private" either!
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Auspicious
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:09 am    

I suspect the 50 post limit derives from the board software that doesn't seem to break long threads into pages. Didn't Eric write the board software?
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walker
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:47 am    

I hate to get into a tutorial on using another board - but, yes, TTOL does support breaking a thread into pages. You just go to your "My Home" page, click on the "Edit" link by Display Preferences, then set the number of posts per page in the line that says "Total posts to show on one page when viewing a post in flat mode (default is 10)".

Here on BVIPirate.com, you click the "Profile" button. When the "Your Profile" page appears, click the "Profile" tab at the top. When the next page appears, click the "Profile Settings" link on the left side of the panel. Then under "Profile Settings", click on "Reading". You can then change the posts per page. The default setting is 20.

The software on BVIPirate has many, many options, which you will discover by browsing through your Profile.
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Auspicious
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:22 am    

Walker wrote:
The software on BVIPirate has many, many options, which you will discover by browsing through your Profile.


I'm very familiar with phpBB as you use here.

I must have set some really big number on TTOL when I signed up sixish years ago.

Anyway, on topic, the trip report is interesting and confirms my belief that staying away from people is usually a good thing.

sail fast, dave
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:20 am    

The TTOL thread about Saildoggie's modified trip report just got closed down by a mod when someone asked why his original trip report was not acceptable to the mods, etc. Mod replied that blah, blah and finally said the thread was closed because questioning the mods (or something like that) was against policy.

As a joke, I started a new thread titled "There goes another one..." and remarked about how another thread was slammed shut. Joked there would be 5 views, 1 reply, and then it would get slammed shut. I was wrong. 7 views, no reply, and thread completely removed. All took about 2 minutes.

Like someone earlier said, don't those mods have anything else better to do that read and censor every last detail on that board constantly 24 hours a day?? Good lord...
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:33 am    

Yup that was mine that got locked down. I guess I am on the naughty mat. Oh well!
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louismcc
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:01 pm    

I'm glad his report got posted over here and am more than a bit concerned about the behavior that he experienced while in the BVI. Generally my only fear of drunks during my dozen trips to the BVI was someone taking my dinghy by mistake or just being too loud at night. Physical assualt and not being able to get a police response is a concern to me that if it were to become more frequent, would have me going elsewhere on vacation.

As far as the TTOL board, their moderators are more than a bit touchy when anyone says anything that remotely questions their moderating decisions. They quickly throw out the "not in accordance with AUP" and threads are locked or deleted. There is also very much a double standard getting applied to what is or is not off topic or unacceptable postings. The board has suffered over the past couple of years as a result but I guess if their ad revenue stays up, they're happy.

I found their decision concerning the censoring of the word sheeple to be downright silly.
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walker
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:08 pm    

This just about sums it up - direct quotes from the TTOL administrator as she locked the thread:

Quote:
"What I do know is that this forum is not the place to get at the truth of what happened."

And
Quote:
"a travel forum is not the place for the truth to be discerned."

What more can I say. The policies between there and here definitely differ.
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:37 pm    

Yeah, I didn't quite get it, either. Mark and I emailed about the incident and I got the full version of the trip report (names included). I assumed they were looking at it from a legal standpoint and not wanting TTOL to be the vehicle for legal and/or criminal documentation of an event that had nothing to do with TTOL. I thought that was a stretch, but I'm not a lawyer, so whatever. But Carol's reason for closing it makes no sense. They didn't delete the random negative review about Brandywine. To me, this is similar if they are looking at it from a "discerning the truth" standpoint.

Mark, if you had taken out boat names, and people's names, would they have let you post it? Just curious.

Oh well...guess we're free to keep visiting or find somewhere else instead!
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Dugg
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:07 pm    

Hi

Having read both of saildoggie’s posts about his recent experiences - both good and bad - so much for the “one big happy family” concept, as described by the moderator after saildoggie's ‘modified’ post. This sad story (with names omitted on both boards) makes me happy to remain land based - although the trend toward catamarans pretty much prices us out of the market. In the end, sanitizing the issue can end up reducing much of the input on the “other board” to so much “happy talk” (and not the “Tales of the South Pacific” kind either).

We’ve never had a thread closed on us (but we came close a couple of times for reviving the MSD issue). As I see it, trip reports hopefully attempt to present the truth, which is quite different from backseat driver speculation, e.g. about a recent boast sinking that went on and on (and didn’t get cut off). I notice that the moderator locked the topic (starting with saildoggie’s post) after several moderate criticisms. Hence, I’m posting here. If I had gotten a chance to reply (much as the above), I’d just be waiting for the guillotene to fall.

BTW, I posted a second half of a land-based trip report on Tortola and St. John on an USVI board, as the first part evinced no interest on TTOL. The USVI forum on TTOL appears to be almost moribund and there seems to be no interest in the USVI here either.

Just my $0.015 (due to value of the U. S. Dollar).

Peace
Dugg and Chris
http://picasaweb.google.com/papadugg/
Note : Finally got the ‘96, ‘97, ‘98, ‘02 and ‘04 pics posted
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:33 pm    

Regarding TTOL's 50 post limit, I believe they've said it's so people with slow internet connections don't have to deal with long page load times. This doesn't make any sense considering the ability to set the number of posts per page and is ironic considering the origin of TTOL from the ashes of the original TravelTalk. I think they just like having rules that they can enforce -- more irony, considering that one of the things I really like about the BVI is that there aren't a lot of unnecessary rules.

Apart from immoderate moderation, my main beef with TTOL has been their displaying posters' IP addresses, which can have very real privacy and security implications, and just isn't done by legitimate websites. I've explained the issue to the owners and "moderators" several times, but they won't budge. In my own way of protesting, I've chosen to mostly post anonymously on TTOL, but I'm sure the "moderators" have come to know my posts by my IP address.

I look forward to participating in this open and in all likelihood more informative forum. Thanks, Walker, for providing it.
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saildoggie
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:59 pm    

Just to set the record straight, my original post on TTOL did not mention any names or boat names, it was the content describing criminal behavior they rejected.
Check TTOL's SXM board, loaded with stories of robberies, assaults, you name it, it flys there but noot in tyhe BVI section as shown by Hillsideview.

The report and statement that was emailed to a few TTOL that I trust included the names, they were instructed to keep them under their hat as I will continue to do.

I want no further violence and do not want any reprecussions when I return to the islands.

Maybe it was agood omen that the Police did not show up, this is a violent individual and I would fear future attacks, a non violent soultion is being worked on.

Wonder if I can get a permit to carry a stun gun in the BVI's? Shocked

Seriously, I appreciate everyone's support and am trying to put this incident behind me, it was simply a very nasty bump in our vacation.

We continued to have a great trip despite the actions of a big pack of coward idiots. (The drunken Dipsticks)

My wife and daughter are having a much more difficult time putting this behind them,I am trying to get their comfort level with the ilons back right now.
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:13 pm    

Mark,

The best thing to do to help them put this behind them is get them back down there. I HATE that this is what they took away from the trip. I totally understand, though.

What about bringing them down when you go in November? Probaby difficult with school, but they might even enjoy a land based vacation while you did the boat thing.

-Emily
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:16 pm    

I say bring the big dog next time - you can bring my two as well - 3 large dogs would do wonders for a group of drunken dipsticks.

So sorry that happened. It was nice to meet you, albiet very briefly, at Leverick Bay on the 2nd. We've vowed next time to go a cat as the monohull - well, just not quite roomy enough. Guess our decision to go to White Bay that night was a good one...I REALLY dislike when things get out of hand like that.
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STEWART
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:22 pm    

What a dam nightmare, glad to hear that most of the trip was enjoyed. There is no telling what may have happened to you if you had not gotten off their boat fast enough. They seemed to have been fueling each other on. I cant believe they were stupid enough to come over to your boat and bang on the hull at three A.M.
Their lucky you didn't put a flare in their dink.
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MrBombastic
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:40 pm    

Saildoggie,

On a different subject, that kite camera was really neat. Did you buy this or build it??? Could you take multiple pictures? Been trying to find some info on this but not having a ton of luck. Anything you could share would be great! cheers
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MrBombastic
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:45 pm    

HillsideView wrote:
Hey Saildoggie....check this out...you type in SHEEPLE and [censored] doesn't appear! Gotta like that!


Whoa!!!! Check this out:



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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:46 pm    

I'm so sorry to hear about your situation Saildoggie! It's sad when something like this happens in such a beautiful location....but these things do happen and turning your back on them or not being able to post the full story isn't really fair. I hope your wife and daughter can embrace BVI again without fear.

I had a similar, less invasive experience on our first charter this past Feb. We are usually land based and took the leap to a charter. We did use CatCo and were extremely happy. Our situation occurred on the Willy T on our first night out on the water. We were approached by some drunk men as we came up onto the dinghy dock. They got right into my brother and my father's face verbally assaulting them. All the dinghies were tied so tighly to the dock that we had to crawl over 2 dinghies to get onto the dock to tie off. These men did not like that we had to skip from our dinghy to theirs onto the dock and they came down in a stupor to yell at us about it. Mind you their dinghy was tied up so tight it was pratically lifted onto the dock! I got between the drunk stranger and my brother before the drunk threw fists. It wasn't exactly the best way to start the vacation, but since ours was less drastic of an encounter as yours, we were able to move past it. It does sound like you still made the best of your situation when not being hunted down by a bunch of hoodlums!

Also, as a side note, I believe it was Sea Dream (a Moorings charter boat) that we had problems with the Captain when moored in front of Ivans. They came roaring into the packed mooring area and proceded to drop anchor just off of us...a little too close for comfort! He gave us the stink eye as we watched his boat swing at us on the mooring. He pulled anchor and roared out shortly after. Of course it might just be a coincidence that it's the same boat, but worth mentioning!

Again, I am so sorry to hear about your situation. I read your first report on TTOL and felt I was missing some inside story with the edited version. Its easier to understand with the full version and sad to know it was edited. There is no reason you can't put forth the good and bad of the trip. You aren't a new or anon poster so I can't see what the issue was.
Crying or Very sad
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HillsideView
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:59 pm    

Wow, this is really amazing. An INTELLIGENT conversation being carried on by adults (I think Rolling Eyes ) and no need for a moderator to come in to control the flock!! Anyone get the feeling that maybe,just maybe, the reaction/interaction of TTOL moderators would help a thread spiral downhill?
This is really cool. People actually saying what they think. What a great idea!!!
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:01 pm    

One of the scary parts of this is that you're in a damned-if-you-do/damned-if you-don't situation. In the US I would have some idea how to handle the situation, know generally what the laws are related to self-defense, and have an idea of what resources I have available to me if things escalate. Down there I would have no idea what to do in a situation like that. If you defend yourself you may be opening yourself (and your family) to legal troubles, further injury and ruining the vacation. If you don't defend yourself then you are opening yourself up to further harassment (if your on a similar itinerary then the chance of running into them again is quite high) or having to completely change your plans in the face of threats.

I can understand TTOL not wanting this fought out on their board (if it would even get that far) but there are several issues related to this that are very important for those interested in the BVIs. Being harassed by drunks isn't endemic to the BVIs (it's happened to me more than once in the US.) That can happen anywhere and isn't particularly relevant to BVI travel. What is relevant for those going to the BVIs is that the police failed to respond. Given that failed response how one should handle this situation given the jurisdiction of an unfamiliar legal system (and one where a local might have 'friends' in the system) is also relevant.
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Auspicious
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:27 pm    

Objectively, I can understand a board administration wanting to avoid a fight on the board.

Personally, I'd like to hear the other side of the story. I'd also like to know the other party since - if SD's story is even 50% accurate (no disrespect, just recognizing that there are always two sides) I would take any post by the other party with a huge grain of salt.
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saildoggie
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:44 pm    

Call them out on TTOL!!

Send them over here, I cannot, Carol would ban me for life!!

I have the screen names but cannot give them to you either.

I am sure the TTOL mods are monitoring this thread as well! Rolling Eyes

Call them out on a post to check in here, no worries, I have over 20 witnesses to the whole thing!! Laughing
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Auspicious
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:48 pm    

saildoggie wrote:
Call them out on TTOL!!

Send them over here, I cannot, Carol would ban me for life!!

I have the screen names but cannot give them to you either.

I am sure the TTOL mods are monitoring this thread as well! Rolling Eyes

Call them out on a post to check in here, no worries, I have over 20 witnesses to the whole thing!! Laughing


You can do whatever you like. It is up to you to decide what you *will* do.

Your choice, not mine.

sail fast, dave
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:40 pm    

So I just went over to TTOL for my daily fix only to see that the original post that I clicked on to get to this sight is gone.....or am I just blind??? Rolling Eyes
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walker
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:45 pm    

The post is still there - you probably just missed it. It is Link to REAL trip report! in the BVI People Talk section.
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:46 pm    

Sorry...you're right! I am blind! Need to take my woman eyes off Embarassed
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:08 pm    

saildoggie wrote:
Call them out on TTOL!!

Send them over here, I cannot, Carol would ban me for life!!

I have the screen names but cannot give them to you either.

I am sure the TTOL mods are monitoring this thread as well! Rolling Eyes

Call them out on a post to check in here, no worries, I have over 20 witnesses to the whole thing!! Laughing


Actually, I'd like to call out the witnesses as well as the other party. I don't know who any of the witnesses are, so maybe some have already responded.

As someone said before, no disrespect, but we have only heard one side of this. Please don't get me wrong. Dangerous piloting, harrassing at 3:00am, assault, etc. are clearly wrong, but we are being expected to believe that the response was all "please and thank you". If Saildoggie was able to maintain composure in the face of threats to his family, my hat's off to him. I would not have been so composed, I'm sure.

I truely hope that your family is able to cope and put this behind them. Good luck.
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saildoggie
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:30 pm    

OK, first the perps:

MTBVI and Paradisebound TTOL screen names, coin on in, let's hear your side!! Dancing





I will ask the TTOL'er's that witnessed the assault to jump on in and tell you what they saw!


No truth has been stretched whatsoever. Exclamation
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Twanger
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:36 pm    Post subject:  Yeppers

Saildoggy - Yep, those guys on the other cat had serious anger issues.

I saw them blast into Great Harbor and into a full anchorage at what looked like full-throttle.

Also saw them trying to push you into a fight at Foxy's.

Then saw them blast into Cane Garden at what looked like full throttle.

Then they harassed my wife and our guests on the beach at Cane Garden.

Then they came into the swim area of Cane Garden with a motored dingy looking for a fight with you. I told them to get out of the swim area with the dingy and use the dingy dock.

Later that evening I saw you at their boat with your dingy and saw them reaching down and grabbing you and punching you at Cane Garden.

These idiots, the charter captain in particular, should lose his license and really should be doing jail time.
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:25 pm    

I do believe the new thread is gone now....

I'm sorry that this happened to you and your family -
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:39 pm    

I was one of the witnesses to several of the incidents. We were RIGHT next to Mark at Foxy's when the guys all came up and were talking to him. Saw someones arm around Mark's neck like they were going to give him a noogie on his head..it looked rougher than a "friend" would do. Joe and I were both like, "who the hell is that?" but weren't sure until later that we were right. We happened to be out on deck and witness the whole thing that happened when the "incident" happened along side the boat. It seemed that they were wherever we were. Definitley made for some unpleasant times. What jerks. Sorry that happened, Mark. I also hate that Nicole and Lynn are upset and having a hard time putting it behind them but I understand. It will just take some time. Let me know if you need anything.

Heather

PS..Walker..where's the SPELL CHECK??!! Shocked
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SeaRay
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:52 pm    

It is funny to see how quickly two recent posts disappeared from TTOL. They are really quick with the delete button over there!!

Saildoggie once again you are to be commended for your patiences
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walker
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:10 pm    

My, oh my, we passed 50 posts and *nothing* happened!!! jester
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AndyW
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:19 pm    

Mark, kudos to you and your family and friends for not allowing anyone to come between you and what was clearly a great vacation! I've always found it's "adventures" both good and bad that make for lasting memories and it always seems to be the "bad ones" that end up being laughed about most in the end.

Sad to hear of such things happening in such a beautiful place but I would rather hear about it than not hear about it and am glad Walker is allowing things to be aired here openly. Nothing wrong with a little free speech IMHO. Wink

Cheers, Andrew
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tpcook
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:21 pm    

Sad that TTOL has taken this route to your report.
Sad that the police could not take care of this situation.

Personally if this occurred to me, ,I probably would have gone ballistic

Personally I would have taken this to the owner/charter company involved.

I hope you have gotten an apology from the other TTOL member.
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:04 pm    Post subject:  OMG....Saildoggie.....

I am so glad you are OK! What a horrible experience for you, Lynn, Nicole and her friend. Here I was pleased as punch that I bought you all drinks at Soggy Dollar for your 50th hoping you would have the best birthday ever.

Trip reports should never be censored. OK, maybe for truly obscene language but not for reporting the truth. When I travel, I want to know the good, the bad and the ugly.

I often travel alone and would like to know things to be aware of. People/establishments to stay clear of.

I am so sorry Lynn and Nicole are having a hard time dealing with this. I know I would be devastated if someone hurt my dad or husband and harrassed us.

I know you are true to your word as we email each other with our doggie stories.

Anyone who has met you through the TTOL board, personally or through cyber space knows your integrity.

I am just thankful you are OK. Hope Lynn and Nicole feel better soon.

I truly hope I meet you and your family one day. Thanks for reporting a 'true' trip report.

Di & Cali

P.S. Give Trin a big hug for us.

P.S. For those that don't know...Cali is my dog.
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:39 am    

Oh, my...20/20 hindsight can be a wonderful thing...this from one of the perps while he was planning the charter:

Quote:
all we will need is a COOL room with a Bed. Next day getting provisions, giving some first timers a bit of a tour, start the party again then the next morning on the boat.


This from the other one:

Quote:
I figure the captain probably already has the must sees in mind, and that we might should just go with the flow (after all, none of us have ever been to BVI)


And this, sheesh:

Quote:
would say that our group likes to have fun. We're not spring breakers either, and we're in our 30's, but I wouldn't be surprised if our group, relative to other BVI'ers, may be classified as above average when it comes to indulging in cocktails (reminder, our kids are staying home).


ahem.

best,

Chuck
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:33 am    

Well, as the Mom of one of the girls on the boat I can tell you that the situation was handled VERY well by Mark and crew.....here's my take.....I got my usual nightly call from Haley and she relayed a bit of the story. (this was just after the original altercation at Jost but before the whole CGB incident)...Haley was not freaked out but was worried for Mark. She knew he had broken ribs from the "gravity storm" incident at the villa AND that it was supposed to be his 50th Bday celebration. Bill and Mark got on the phone and made sure I knew what had transpired in full detail so that i wouldn't be worried. I knew all was well, she was in good hands and that they were dealing with these assholes as best as they could. I told her that "ya know , shit happens, people can be jerks just try and put it past you guys and enjoy the rest of your trip"

Honestly, I commend Mark for his restraint and told him I was actually glad Rex WASN'T there because I'm SURE he/they would have ended up in jail...and I'm not joking. Mark stood his ground but did NOTHING to provoke these fuckers to bang on his hulls at 4am and harass them the whole next day.

What these assholes did was truly twisted and reminiscent of some bizarre road rage type mentality. I mean, a mixed up dinner reservation leads one to torment a family on vacation for days! Just sick!

I hope the people responsible are eventually outed and blacklisted, there is no way they should be allowed to conduct themselves in this manner and get away with it.
What goes around, comes around.



ps. Sorry Walker that my first post on your board is such a bitch session! LOL

cheers, Laura
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:47 am    Post subject:  looks like TTOL getting some momemtum now...

http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=871434&an=0&page=0#Post871434
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Auspicious
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:32 am    

Hmm. Seemed like a pretty civil discussion over there before it got locked. Too bad. To me it casts doubt on the objectivity and credibility of everything else. What else has been deleted unseen? Worse, what self-editing is done because posters fear retribution (even if only having their threads locked or deleted).

In my opinion the moderation is too heavy handed, and does not include (as near as I can tell) any specific feedback to the posters.

It does sadden me that sailingdoggie suffered the experience he and his crew did; that it was at the hands of other people that shared the same Internet social network and information resource is truly unfortunate.

I'll just have to post here instead. <grin>

sail fast, dave
S/V Auspicious
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:51 am    

I am glad that I was able to read about this incident. I was relating it to my husband and it gave us a chance to talk about what would we have done - and better yet - what would we do in a situation like this. Everytime you get a chance to talk about what could go wrong you get a chance to plan about how to handle that situation.

I applaud Mark for his handling of the situation. Sad times indeed when people feel the need to be less than civil, especially on vacation.
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:11 am    

I think you have to keep in mind that no forum is a "be-all". TTOL has been a valuable tool for me for years. If not for it, I may have never even come to the BVI, never got involved in cruising, and most of the people I know in the BVI I met there - JD, Bill Hartzman, saildoggie! But, as Walker said, it IS a commercial site, and the owners can do as they want. When taking advice there you must keep that in mind. Walker's site treats touchy matters differently, and as such is a great tool for travel planning as well. Knowing Mark, I very much wanted to know ALL the details. I know what his personality is like, and wanted to see what kind of morons would do this kind of stuff - I too will be back next year, and found it interesting to see what the local response was to an emergency call from a boat - I would most likely have done the same in Mark's situation, but now know to handle it differently should the need arise. Thank's Walker for keeping things open so we can plan for ANY possibilities.
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:23 am    

First off, WOW! I missed this thread across on the other side of the pond. I can't beleieve any one acted as theses guys did. Just unreal. I am so sorry your vacation and birthday was marred by such child like behavior.

Again, sorry if I have not seen all the other threads but am I reading this right that the "perps", meaning the guys who threw punches, are posters on TTOL? Have they posted about this?

saildoggie wrote:
OK, first the perps:

MTBVI and Paradisebound TTOL screen names, coin on in, let's hear your side!! Dancing

. Exclamation


And finally, Saildoggie, you get the award for restraint. I am not sure I could have acted the part of the resposible adult as you did. Kudos![
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:48 am    

I appreciate this forum allowing this story to be told. We leave for paradise in two weeks. This was discussed last night in our group, pre-trip meeting. I am sure that if, god forbid, we run into this situation, we will be better prepared to deal with it.....I just don't understand why adults would waste their whole vacation harassing a family because of something as silly as a restaurant reservation!
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:55 am    

Just wanted to comment on the police response to this incident. I fully understand why the victim chose to stay on his boat - I probably would have done the same. But under these circumstances, I don't think you can or should expect the BVI police to arrange their own dinghy ride and then come looking for you in the mooring field.
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MrBombastic
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:22 am    

WildMeridian wrote:
Oh, my...20/20 hindsight can be a wonderful thing...this from one of the perps while he was planning the charter:

Quote:
all we will need is a COOL room with a Bed. Next day getting provisions, giving some first timers a bit of a tour, start the party again then the next morning on the boat.


This from the other one:

Quote:
I figure the captain probably already has the must sees in mind, and that we might should just go with the flow (after all, none of us have ever been to BVI)


And this, sheesh:

Quote:
would say that our group likes to have fun. We're not spring breakers either, and we're in our 30's, but I wouldn't be surprised if our group, relative to other BVI'ers, may be classified as above average when it comes to indulging in cocktails (reminder, our kids are staying home).


ahem.

best,

Chuck


I think these threads have been deleted. Saw them yesterday, gone today. Hmmm.....
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Dmgators
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:00 am    

They are still there...
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:02 am    

Saildoggie,
Gigantic Kudos-+ to you on how you handled the situations.

There are a handful of posters on TTOL from whom, over the years, many of us have been freely benefiting from picking their virtual brains on where to go, what to do and where to eat, when we visit the BVI's.

GlennA, Big Jim, you and of course Walker are a few of the “elder statesmen” who have provided valuable info that made our short stays in the BVI’s more enjoyable. For those of us who only get to go sailing every few years your inputs allow us to get more value for our dollars during our short visits

Ever since TTOL closed down the political forum (damn that was a fun place!) there has been an ever increasing heavy handedness in how they handle topics that are only slightly controversial. As others have mentioned there is a not too subtle bias in what they don’t allow and an inconsistency between forums.

The fact that you were restricted in what you could post drove me over here this AM to find out what the heck was happening. I was pleasantly surprised to see the up tick in postings on BVI Pirate.

I think that something good has come out of your TTOL posting hell. It has pointed us to an alternative site that over time can be every bit as informative but with the added spice of not having moderation that smacks of censorship.

Walker, kudos to you for allowing us to behave and misbehave here.

My daily PC routine will now include visiting BVIPirate.com instead of only TTOL
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:10 am    

So what are the names (Subject lines) of those posts that the quotes from the othe TTOLers involved were taken from? I'm curious and would like to read the whole threads.

Thanks
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Twanger
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:32 am    

This thread reminds me of how important it is to document problems such as this.
A video or photo of the incident would go a long way if it came to needing it.
Given how much we love documenting our trips with photographs, a camera or video camera is usually close at hand.
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MrBombastic
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:00 pm    

WildMeridian wrote:
Oh, my...20/20 hindsight can be a wonderful thing...this from one of the perps while he was planning the charter:



Chuck, you left this one out -

Quote:
After the charter we are booked for two nights Marina Cay. I am sure we will run into you as we get on the boat on the 28.... Regards.......
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:02 pm    

SailDoggie,

Glad to see the 'true' report posted. Thanks Walker for allowing this.

My feelings on TTOL censorship mirror most of those voiced here. Still can't believe SHEEPLES is a no-no. I hadn't posted our June trip report on TTOL because hubby wrote it and used SHEEPLES. He thought the term was perfect. Now that I know it's not a no-no here, trip report to be posted on BVI Pirate ASAP.

Hope you're feeling better Saildoggie and hope the girls overcome their fears.

Tortola Lola
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:02 pm    

Thanks to twanger and heatherlovesjvd for jumping in here. As I mentioned, no disrespect to Mark, but it's always good to hear from others involved. Hat's off to Mark. Start making plans with your family for your next BVI visit. Get 'em back on the horse ASAP! Looking forward to any information regarding a response from CatCo or the BVI authorities.

Thanks,
Jeff


Last edited by Guest on Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:02 pm    

CarrieO - you can do a search using the screen name. Leave the "keyword search terms" blank and use the "username search" below it. Make sure you change your date range...if you go back 1 year you will find them.
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H Man
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:03 pm    Post subject:  'Doggie, glad you're OK

And thanks, Walker, for keeping the information flowing.
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AndyW
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:09 pm    

The old TTOL CE (aka political) forum is alive and well for better or probably worse at www.puddlepirates.com and has been since the day it was unceremoniously removed from TTOL. Just about all the old regulars that used to post on the old TTOL CE are still going at it there. Anyone is more than welcome to join the fray there and/or invite anyone else you might think might be interested in participating as well. You can pretty much say anything you want about ANY subject so it may not be for everybody but no one should take it too seriously any more than they should have when it was part of TTOL.

That being said I can fully understand why the old CE was removed from TTOL as TTOL really is first and foremost a travel board and political debates are probably better off being discussed elsewhere. Censoring honest trip reports and/or posts with useful travel information good or bad is a whole other ball game. I have gleaned a whole lot of good info from the participants at TTOL including many of the mods and would like continue to do so but if I ain't getting ALL the information warts and all then it's not much use.


Last edited by AndyW on Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:22 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:10 pm    

Saildoggie - so sorry to hear of this awful incident! I cannot believe that someone would act in such a ridiculous manner. As everyone else has stated, kudos to you for handling the situation so well.
I definitely hope you and your family can put this behind you and enjoy many more vacations in the BVI.
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Auspicious
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:14 pm    

charliemax wrote:
Just wanted to comment on the police response to this incident. I fully understand why the victim chose to stay on his boat - I probably would have done the same. But under these circumstances, I don't think you can or should expect the BVI police to arrange their own dinghy ride and then come looking for you in the mooring field.


I disagree. The BVI is an island nation. It is not unreasonable to expect a police boat on JVD, three or so on Tortola, and a couple on VG. You may think differently, but that is my opinion.
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:20 pm    

Is it a surprise to anyone that there has not been a post or anything from these 2 parties involved since their return?!?! I ran a search of the names and the only posts I saw come up were from before their "adventure."

If I were them, I would be BEYOND embarrassed after the situation to even attempt to go back to TTOL and write a trip report. But, these people are also beyond what I would consider normal if they spend however long in a beautiful setting such as the BVI staulking a fellow traveller for the specific reason of harrassing them and their families!
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MrBombastic
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:33 pm    

Auspicious wrote:
I disagree. The BVI is an island nation. It is not unreasonable to expect a police boat on JVD, three or so on Tortola, and a couple on VG. You may think differently, but that is my opinion.


They certainly due have police boats. Why they didn't respond here I don't know. In March around Easter at Pirates Bight there was a disturbance and the Police showed up. It involved a 60' blue Uniesse (Navy Vessel from a neighboring island) anchored too close to Pirates dock. The owner asked the boat to move, he refused and the boat owner allegedly physically threatened the owner of Pirates. The police were there relatively quickly. Perhaps they are not as concerned about Tourist on Tourist incidents??? Who knows.
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:49 pm    

Quote:
They certainly due have police boats. Why they didn't respond here I don't know. In March around Easter at Pirates Bight there was a disturbance and the Police showed up. It involved a 60' blue Uniesse (Navy Vessel from a neighboring island) anchored too close to Pirates dock. The owner asked the boat to move, he refused and the boat owner allegedly physically threatened the owner of Pirates. The police were there relatively quickly. Perhaps they are not as concerned about Tourist on Tourist incidents??? Who knows


My guess would be that there is a police station and police on Jost so the thought would be they could handle the issue. So there really would not be a need for a police boat. But, they should have either gone out to the boat or at the very least had someone summon the people involved to shore.

Obviously there is no police presence on Norman, therefore the police boat responded.

That would be the only thing I could think of.
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:22 pm    

The incident for which the police were called occurred in CGB. If I were on a boat in CGB and called the police, I think I would expect to meet them at the dinghy dock by Quito's unless some other specific arrangement had been made.
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:25 pm    

Ok, CGB, my mistake. Same applies though. I agree an arrangement should have been made.
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:14 pm    

Quote:
Actually, I'd like to call out the witnesses as well as the other party. I don't know who any of the witnesses are, so maybe some have already responded


We were anchored at Great Harbour on that Sat and were not in any way invloved with the TTOL's - Saildoggies et al and witnessed the other 2 cats coming into Great Harbour at around 5pm at great speed and with lots a noise, obviously they had spent some time at the Soggy Dollar. While setting anchor the crew were buzzing around in dinghies between the 2 cats and my DH remarked that on how reckless they were behaving. We did not see the issue at Foxy's but were awaken by all the commotion when they returned to their boat, which we now understand was the harrasment of Dream Cat!

BTW Saildoggie I have a great pic of my DD & DH at White bay with Dream cat! Will post.
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:27 pm    

Those of us who have been around a few years know that TTOL is definitley not what it used to be and over the years certain members have clearly been discriminated against for discussing their opinions on certain matters concerning The BVI's. Hence, alot original TTOL Family Members have either left or post infrequently for all of the reasons mentioned.
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walker
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:29 pm    

Maybe we can even get Herve to reappear....
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:41 pm    

That would be very 'special.'
If my memory serves me right, he was the first one to get dissed in a big major way.
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Dmgators
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:46 pm    

Tortola_Lola wrote:
trip report to be posted on BVI Pirate ASAP.


Looking forward to it, Misti, mine is still in handwritten form.... Rolling Eyes
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walker
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:53 pm    

I just sent Herve an email. It would be nice to get him back in the sandbox with us.
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saildoggie
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:59 pm    

Appears this has run it's course, THREAD CLOSED! rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:21 am    

You So Funni
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Amurphy08
Link to this postPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:33 pm    

Saildoggie,
I don't remember if I told you this or not... that evening in CGB when we were on our way to The Elm from the dinghy dock, I remember seeing two policeman standing by Rhymer's looking out and talking heatedly about what to do.... I don't know if it was your incident they were referring to , but I'm pretty sure it was and they looked pretty perplexed as to how to get out to you....

And for what it matters, I remember watching the whole thing unfold that evening and at Foxy's the night before and the people on those other boats were a_ _ holes and COMPLETELY out of line. I think they even started to say something to us at Foxy's. We just ignored them. Saildoggie was more calm than I would have been in that situation..

Amy
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HillsideView
Link to this postPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:02 pm    

Yup, get some folks liquored up and they act like real assholes. Was having dinner at the Big Banana 3 years ago and there were some liquored up people at a table, giving the waitress a real bad time. One jerk kept calling out "Yo Ho, Yo Ho" and waving to her. I suggested he cut it out and he told me, "I'm a pirate" and I said "What a coincidence, so am I. Keep it up and your privateers will be dangling off your buccaneers". Then I asked if they needed an escort out. They left. The poor waitress had been in tears and they just kept it up. Never saw them there again.
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saildoggie
Link to this postPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:21 pm    

Amy. The Police should not have been perplexed.
I told them where our boat is, where the Drunken dipsticks boat is and told them to call my cell# if they wanted one of our crew to pick them up at the dinghy dock.
They could have easily just walked onto the dinghy dock and commendeered the next dink to land!!

Bruce, I'll hang with you, funny stuff indeed, more drunk dipsticks.

Our experience is the drunks are usually fun to hang out with and most of them are happy drunks.....

I mean really, look who we hang out with when we are on ilon!!! doh
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HillsideView
Link to this postPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:40 pm    

saildoggie wrote:
Amy. The Police should not have been perplexed.


Why not? Every other crime on the ilon seems to baffle 'em yikes

They were probably arguing who had to walk on the sand and scuff their shoes up.
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:20 pm    

Saildoggie - truly sorry to hear about this. I don't know how you keep such a positive outlook. Good for you!!

What is good for me is that I discovered this forum. And, I discovered that I'm not the only one with TTOL issues. Who knew!
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saildoggie
Link to this postPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:39 pm    

Welcome saillabout and thanks! Everything is on the mend!

Actually Hillside I was hoping to see that big BVI Police cigarette boat with 6 BIG guys in lifejackets with automatic rifles come roaring into CGB with the pretty blue lights flashing!! Cool
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Amurphy08
Link to this postPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:05 pm    

Saildoggie, I agree, they should have known what to do, but obviously they didn't care too much. Very sad.
I actually agree with what Hillside said about not getting their shoes dirty/sandy.... they seem to not want to get off the concrete at Rhymer's!!

You know, if that had happened to me about the reservation at Foxy's, I would have just sat at the bar and had a drink... why get all worked about about a reservation.



Amy
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Amurphy08
Link to this postPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:08 pm    

saildoggie wrote:

I mean really, look who we hang out with when we are on ilon!!! doh


Who are you speaking of?? tonguea laugh
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:15 pm    

Hello Mark,

Sorry about not getting out here sooner but things went very bad very quickly with my mother-in-law.

I can backup many of what mark stated happened in CGB. Almost my entire crew wittnessed the assult. I missed the ending of the pounding as I and two other were getting the dinghy to intervien. We were a little slow as the the BBQ was going and the dinghy was wrapped up on the other side of the boat. A few of the ladies witnessed the entire thing. We exchanged a few words with the other boat and headed back. I dropped off the other two and went over to see how Mard was doing. His eye was red where he received many of the blows.

There is nothing that should have ever enlisted that kind of reaction. Out numbered 6 to 1 and at a strategic disadvantage. The caption had to punch down to his knees. There wes nothing Mark could do to defend himself while he attempted to get his painter back.

Mark, I am glad to have met you and shared a few drinks and am glad you move on and had a great time on your vacation.

Cheers my friend, Jim
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:53 am    

OK, I've got to vent a little... I really don't think the BVI police are all that different than police anywhere else. There are likely some really good ones, a whole lot of average ones, and some really bad ones.

Whether or not folks feel that they should be able to expect the BVI police to find their own way to their boat in a situation like this, I for one would not expect it. Nor would I expect it from the police at home. In retrospect, I think it would have been a good idea for saildoggie to ask one of his friends (seems like he had several around) to go ashore and meet the police.

saildoggie wrote:
The Police should not have been perplexed.
I told them where our boat is, where the Drunken dipsticks boat is and told them to call my cell# if they wanted one of our crew to pick them up at the dinghy dock.

Perhaps it was just your choice of words in describing your conversation, but it seems that you did a lot of telling them what to do. Did you ask how they'd like to handle the situation?

Sorry for coming across as critical -- so easy to have 20/20 hindsight. God knows what I would have done in this situation.
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MrBombastic
Link to this postPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:03 am    

charliemax wrote:
OK, I've got to vent a little... I really don't think the BVI police are all that different than police anywhere else. .


They have Dunkin Donuts in the BVI????
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Auspicious
Link to this postPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:04 am    

charliemax wrote:
Whether or not folks feel that they should be able to expect the BVI police to find their own way to their boat in a situation like this, I for one would not expect it. Nor would I expect it from the police at home. In retrospect, I think it would have been a good idea for saildoggie to ask one of his friends (seems like he had several around) to go ashore and meet the police.


Everywhere I have lived, sailed, or otherwise visited that touched water had a means for law enforcement to be on the water. The BVI are islands for crying out loud!

Given the geography and charter industry I would like to understand why there isn't a police boat in Great Harbour (covers all of JVD), one in Soper's (covers West End at least as far as Brewer's), one in Road Town (covers South shore), and one in Spanishtown (covers VG and splits Salt/Ginger/Peter/Norman with Road Town boat).

A cooperative arrangment with VISAR could reduce costs and manning requirements.

The biggest deal is probably familiarity and handling training for the officers.
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Amurphy08
Link to this postPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:17 am    

Totally agree Auspicious... A huge part of the BVI's jurisdiction is the water and they should be able to get to any situation out there just as easily. I live on the water here, 5 minutes by bike from a tiny barrier island, and I can assure you that their resources pale in comparison to the BVI's, yet they can respond in less than 5 minutes to any situation that arises.
If they were given all the information about where to go and who was involved, there should have been more intervention than there was.

Amy
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:44 pm    

The BVI police DO have presence on the water, but I believe it's limited to emergency response and response to remote areas that aren't otherwise accessible. I just don't think you could justify the cost of having it any other way. In this case, consider the direct cost of sending a boat on a round trip from Soper's to CGB vs. having the police already in or near CGB handle it. Not to mention the indirect cost of maintaining a boat and crew in Soper's 24 x 7.

One of my points that I now realize wasn't stated clearly is that as much as you might like for certain things to be different than they are in the BVI (or anywhere, for that matter), you'd be a lot better off understanding how things really are and adjusting your expectations accordingly. At least until such time as you figure out how to change things...
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Auspicious
Link to this postPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:42 pm    

If no one speaks up we can't possibly expect authorities to change. The recent Port Authority fees in the BVI are a good example.

Given the number of boats that frequent the anchorages of the BVI the police *should* (yes - that is an expectation on my part) have a standard procedure for reaching a boat, whether that is through their own resources, shared resources, or commandeering civil resources. Clearly they either don't have such a standard procedure or the training is inadequate.

Perhaps a carefully crafted, extremely civil letter to the Commissioner of Police would help.

EDIT:
Contact information - http://www.psdp.gov.vg/index.php?ref=charters&charterid=29
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saildoggie
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:42 pm    

Just so ypu know, 2 emails were sent, no reply whatsover for 5 days!

Appears when a local is involved, old buddies, they just ignore t.


Prolly the same reason they did not respond to the 3 phone calls,.

Can't get to the boat, gimme a break, a short walk to the dinghy dock at CGB, you CAN get to the boat, they (BVI Police) really have diappointed us, not impressed at all.
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HillsideView
Link to this postPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:31 pm    

Hmmmm, letter to the editor of the Beacon and/or Standpoint might be in order. (I assume they can read)
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MrBombastic
Link to this postPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:38 am    

Looks like the BVI is beefing up the police force:

http://www.caribbean360.com/News/Caribbean/Stories/2008/07/30/NEWS0000006117.html
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walker
Link to this postPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:47 am    

MrBombastic wrote:
Looks like the BVI is beefing up the police force:

http://www.caribbean360.com/News/Caribbean/Stories/2008/07/30/NEWS0000006117.html

That is good news. Currently, a fair portion of the BVI police force is comprised of non-belongers from other Caribbean islands. Some of them are very good, but (IMHO) some others of them have a down-island attitude.

Some new blood from the UK might make a big improvement.
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nodee
Link to this postPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:24 am    

Walker, Thanks for this venue and all you do for us travellers that love the BVI and Anegada in particular.

Mark, cheers to you for your handling of this rediculous event. Don't give up an a wonderful place just because of assholes, I am not sure where in the world you could go to escape them.

Auspicious wrote:
Quote:
Given the geography and charter industry I would like to understand why there isn't a police boat in Great Harbour (covers all of JVD), one in Soper's (covers West End at least as far as Brewer's), one in Road Town (covers South shore), and one in Spanishtown (covers VG and splits Salt/Ginger/Peter/Norman with Road Town boat).


While I believe that the security and response in the BVI could be improved, I would hope that the pendulum would not swing too far. One of the attractions of travelling to other worlds is that things are different than they are at home. There are lots of terrible events that happen throughout the world and things get handled in different ways. Here http://riodulcechisme.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=1871 is an interesting discussion on local justice with a recent event on the Rio Dulce. Not saying this is right or wrong, good or bad, just different and sometimes it is the "different" that makes a place attractive. Let's not fill the anchorages up with police boats on patrol.
That said, I absolutely agree that the response to Mark's assault could have been handled better.
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saildoggie
Link to this postPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:36 am    

Welcome aboard Nodee!!! newbie

Thanks for what you said, and yes, I will be back soon to make the BVI's "mine" again very soon as my friend Tom Garvey said.
Very Happy
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nodee
Link to this postPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:25 am    

Thanks, Saildoggie. I hope Catco does what they can for you. I have chartered several times with them and it has always been a first class experience. I own an L440 here in Maryland; not in charter. One of my clients has a 500 in charter with Catco, hope it wasn't his.
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saildoggie
Link to this postPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:49 pm    

Catco cooperated fully, the President was extremly concerned and helped out a lot.

The boat was named Sea Dreams.

The local Captain was a Moorings Captain, hired diectly by the chrterers.

The Moorings appeared to take this very seriously and told me the man would never work for them again.

I am told by a good friend on ilon that he is playing role of Captain again, was in a recent flotilla, not sure what charter Co.


I have an email into my contact at The Moorings that assured me he would no longer work for them, in my mind that includes sunsail and Footloose.

My email has remained unanswered, interesting....
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