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Herve
Link to this postPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:29 pm    Post subject: Beark Crap

With yet another lenghty thread pooping up (pun intended) on TTOL it might be time for this most excellent site to provide some authoritative information on the subject.
Since most of us here are full of it we should be able to provide some pertinent data which could save TTOL some serious wasted bandwith in the future.
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walker
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 8:02 pm    

What do you suggest, Herve? I will be glad to set it up.

Title? Crap talk doesn't quite do it.

I do have a good picture, though...
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gsabert
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:07 pm    

I'm curious as to the real story here. I'm sure it is an issue just like anything that is not done in moderation. My question is; do we have any facts as to how much of an issue it really is?

I'm not for more government as a solution, escpecially in the BVI, but charters and charter companies should address this before it becomes more serious. Those of us that love the BVI would certaining be willing to make a small donation, both of time and money, to provide and adequate solution. We just need to keep politics out of it!

Short term solution...don't swim at crowded anchorages with poor circulation.

Forum Title: Who Really Gives a S**t?

George
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Herve
Link to this postPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:27 pm    

I think it should be Walker's next project...
He did a fabulous job with the Anegada approach chart so now what about a survey of the real levels of pollution in the BVIs anchorages ???
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gsabert
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:59 am    Post subject:  Got Scientist?

I own an ad agency so science is 180 degrees from my thing. But, I think there must be a way that a group of us could conduct consistent tests with three specific objectives:

1. Is the water contaminated..and at what levels
2. The levels of contamination at various anchorages
3. What specific initiatives we can take to address these issues

I'd be happy to spend some time while visiting to participate in such a program.

What tools should we use and what methodology should we follow to get consistent and accurate results?

It would be ideal if this testing could take place with Carib/Pain Killers in hand!

George
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SusanC
Link to this postPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:47 pm    

When Marylou, from TTOL, lived on Tortola she knew someone that regularly tested the waters in various bays around Tortola. Perhaps she could ask this person to post their results. He could do so anonymously.

Susan
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 8:41 pm    

I think the first line of action should be to find out what the realities are.
Are the Charter boats really a problem ? It is too easy to point fingers at a such a visible group.

Without having "A" the facts if there is actually a problem, without knowing "B" where the crap comes from it will only escalate to senseless fingerpointing.

I can understand the folks who own a house there which they bought when the BVI were not major touristy, that they getting a little tired with all the problems who arrive daily ( on Cruise ships, planes, charter boats, scuba divers, windsurfer, puerto rican folks, and so forth ) They want to keep "their " island as pristine as they found it 20 years ago.

As far as I understand though ( with my very limited local knowledge) it probably would make much more sense to start and have all the land based sewage under control, which is more or less flowing right into the anchorages. At Trellis Bay I understand only the loose moongoose has a canalisation, all other crap flows right into the ocean.... ???

I might be wrong. And I would do my part ( if possible ) to keep the water fresh. But again I think more fact finding instead of allegations ( mine included for sure ) need to be done ..

Thanks Thorsten
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:12 am    

thorJ30 wrote:
I think the first line of action should be to find out what the realities are.
Are the Charter boats really a problem ? It is too easy to point fingers at a such a visible group.

It really doesn't matter if charter boats are the "PRIMARY" cause of the problem.

The fact is that it just isn't a good idea to dump raw sewage into a place where people go swimming.

If we can eliminate this one source, it will take away the finger pointing and put pressure on other sources to clean up their act as well.
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:14 am    

You are probably right.
I for sure would TRY real hard to pump out at pump out stations around the Islands. But there need to be the option, that you can dump out on the ocean as well. Otherwise I am afraid that the dumping stations will get the mooring ball idea and raise prices into oblivium.

I am on my way to the Sail show in CHicago and will ask the moorings folks up there what they think ...

Thorsten
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:25 am    

thorJ30 wrote:
I am on my way to the Sail show in CHicago and will ask the moorings folks up there what they think

Good idea. Please report back.
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:33 am    

nothing nada nix

those folks where kinda rude... I tried to explain REALLY nice

basically tld me that they were there to sell charter and more importantly boats... and they had no time discussing NON issues...

well ???

I will get better results and more responses from Conch Charter in the summer ....

sorry would have liked to have better news ...

Thorsten
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:16 am    

thorJ30 wrote:
basically tld me that they were there to sell charter and more importantly boats... and they had no time discussing NON issues...

You have to give them high marks for honesty.
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Auspicious
Link to this postPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:48 am    

I'm trying to be more consistent with account names, but I have been dave-man on TTOL.

A couple of years ago I chartered a 4700 from the Moorings. After some pressure, the staff showed us how to use the holding tanks. It took pointing out that one of our group was disabled and would not make it down the dock while we were sleeping aboard the first night.

In any event, on that boat there was a valve that let us dump the tank by gravity offshore. We used the tanks all week, and the last morning I filled the tanks through the deck fills with sea water and dumped offshore before returning the boat.
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 6:08 pm    

klevitt wrote:
The fact is that it just isn't a good idea to dump raw sewage into a place where people go swimming.


I agree! We just got back yesterday from our first BVI charter - on a Moorings (Beneteau) 36 monohull. I realize the following is anecdotal, but the day after our daughter (21 YO) first went swimming, she suddenly developed what looked like a case of terminal acne. And my wife developed a sty. Staph bacteria in the water, or just coincidence???

When we first checked out the boat, the boat briefer instructed us to leave all the head valves in the "continuous overboard discharge" configuration. I told her I thought it was pretty disgusting to pump raw sewage into a crowded anchorage, and that I wanted to use the holding tank. At that point she got someone else to explain the plumbing. Pretty complicated: close the thru-hull that drains the holding tank, and switch the Y-valve to direct the toilet discharge into the holding tank. When you're offshore, open the t-hull, and drain the tank by gravity.

What's really amazing is that there are placards posted above the toilet saying it's illegal to pump sewage within 1/2 mile of shore in the BVIs. (If I don't have that technically correct, I've got it conceptually correct.) But the Moorings has apparently had problems with clients bringing boats back with crap in the holding tank. IMO, however, that's no excuse for dumping sewage in waters where people are swimming.

The only potential I see for a problem with using the type of holding tank we had is that you rely on gravity to drain the thing - there's no macerator pump like we have on our own boat. If you put a lot of solids into the tank, and it all settles into the bottom, and you wait long enough to drain the tank, maybe all the crap could settle into and plug up the discharge hose. But whenever we were offshore, we just opened the drain valve and pumped a _lot_ of sea water through the toilet, to flush everything out of the tank.

BTW, Walker, thanks for the approach directions to the Setting Point channel at Anegada. They worked flawlessly.

Jerry
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Guest
Link to this postPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:40 pm    

We recently returned from a bareboat charter a few weeks ago. While we were going though the boat briefing, I mentioned this topic to the guy doing the briefing. He told me that he was member of something that sounded like the BVI Board of Tourism. He had just returned from a regional meeting of Caribbean countries, and the success of the BVI in the charter business was discussed compared to other places. I told him that the topic of sewage in the anchorages was discussed on this website and that there were some growing concerns about water quality in the BVI. He responded that " the internet is getting out of hand" and that the discharge of effluent has no effect on water quality of the anchorages because the material is diluted and because sewage is a "natural process".

Obviously this is a ridiculus point of view but it does raise the question about what, if anything, is known about the extent of contamination of the BVI's costal waters. Coliform counts are easy to do and relatively inexpensive, but the first order of business in this regard is to do them so that data can replace speculation. I think once people have accurate information, appropriate decisions can be made.

It might be worth while to encourage the Charter Companys and the Board of Tourism(?) to at least study this problem.

Tom
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